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Thread: Sunday, 27 Jan 2013 ASIC Update Discussion Thread

  1. #31
    Senior Member donkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrTeal View Post
    No, they are changing it. Now it's just for the first 6k chips instead of 12k which likely won't cover the first month of orders.

    How much of a difference it makes will depend on how much of the first month 6k chips covers. I would say that if 6k chips covers at least 50% of the first month orders, the effect will be minimal. If it's much less than that, it does start to disadvantage those who were relying on it.
    If at any point during the first month of orders there was a guarantee to apply this method to a total of 12K chips or within some limit I think you have a point. I don't think there was. It's been my understanding that 1/3 applies to the first batch of preorders, and I would interpret the "first batch" as composed of anything really... There could be 9 assembled units or 9000 in the first batch. If 6K chips covers one month of preorders, that's fine, or if it only covers 7 days, that's fine, but I'd also not be surprised if it covered up to three months of preorders.

    It sounds like the problem or "change" is really that BFL expected more orders than they actually have (or have more chips on hand they expected in the first batch), and did not expect to be able to fulfill all of their orders in the first batch, therefore needing to hedge on shipping terms instead of promising sequential and batch delivery. I'd consider the 1/3 thing fulfilled if they go ahead and do it on day one, then on day 2 ship out the rest of the orders if they have enough chips. I didn't expect any artificial delay in shipping, though I wouldn't be surprised if the people who ordered in August, October, or some other arbitrary time after the initial orders to have to wait a few weeks for the next batch of chips.


  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by donkey View Post
    If at any point during the first month of orders there was a guarantee to apply this method to a total of 12K chips or within some limit I think you have a point. I don't think there was. It's been my understanding that 1/3 applies to the first batch of preorders, and I would interpret the "first batch" as composed of anything really... There could be 9 assembled units or 9000 in the first batch. If 6K chips covers one month of preorders, that's fine, or if it only covers 7 days, that's fine, but I'd also not be surprised if it covered up to three months of preorders.

    It sounds like the problem or "change" is really that BFL expected more orders than they actually have (or have more chips on hand they expected in the first batch), and did not expect to be able to fulfill all of their orders in the first batch, therefore needing to hedge on shipping terms instead of promising sequential and batch delivery. I'd consider the 1/3 thing fulfilled if they go ahead and do it on day one, then on day 2 ship out the rest of the orders if they have enough chips. I didn't expect any artificial delay in shipping, though I wouldn't be surprised if the people who ordered in August, October, or some other arbitrary time after the initial orders to have to wait a few weeks for the next batch of chips.
    Yeah, it's not a change from when the plan was announced, back then no indication at all was given on the size of the first batch. It's only a change from a few weeks ago when it was mentioned that they might do all 10k-12k chips in the first batch, and now it's 6k. That change didn't affect anyone's purchasing decision back in July though.


  3. #33
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    It absolutely was not limited to a batch but to the first month of orders. I refer you to an earlier comment in this thread which quotes the FAQ as such.

    You can also see this quoted in this post by cablepair in August referencing BFL on June 27 that the 1/3 plan applies to orders placed in the first month (6/23 - 7/23).

    And here's a page with BFL saying it on June 23rd.

    It was always the first month and this is a change, period.

    Last edited by Fjordbit; 01-28-2013 at 05:40 PM.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fjordbit View Post
    It absolutely was not limited to a batch but to the first month of orders. I refer you to an earlier comment in this thread which quotes the FAQ as such.

    You can also see this quoted in this post by cablepair in August referencing BFL on June 27 that the 1/3 plan applies to orders placed in the first month (6/23 - 7/23).

    And here's a page with BFL saying it on June 23rd.

    It was always the first month and this is a change, period.
    The links you quote disagree with you.
    Firstly, the initial orders will be grouped into a batch prior to shipment. This will ensure no one is an unfair beneficiary of disproportionate hashing power. Having said this, we only have so much production capacity and the initial order group will still do very very well. That being the case, here are the rules we will stick to in releasing these units.

    1/3rd of the units will go in order priority of purchase date.
    1/3rd of the units will go to trade in customers.
    1/3rd of the units will go to random orders placed in the first month (6/23 - 7/23).
    Emphasis mine. Nowhere does it say how large the first batch would be, just that it would include 1/3 of the units shipped to random customers with orders in the first month. After that first batch the plan has always been to go to a FIFO. As far as I know, that's not changing.


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    I see. So long as my later orders then have a chance to be in that first batch, that is fine with me then. I guess I was thinking the 1/3 plan now only applied to the orders that could be covered by the first batch of chips, meaning if the first 6k chips would only cover the first two weeks of orders, then only the first two weeks of orders would be eligible for the 1/3rd plan. But if it is as you say that an order on 7/22 could be sent as the third order, then I'm good.

    To my defense, MrTeal, I did open up in this thread with saying I didn't understand what is happening with the 1/3rd plan and you're the first to try to rectify it.

    Last edited by Fjordbit; 01-28-2013 at 06:09 PM.

  6. #36
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    For the 1/3 random portion, yes all orders in the first month will be put into a random number selection bucket and we'll select 1/3 of our available capacity from the bucket.


  7. #37
    Senior Member bobitza's Avatar
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    I understand that additional changes require additional time, but you know what I find frustrating with these delays? Not all of them seem to be generated by changes in the chip design.

    Some of the past delays sounded like the fab just said: "we need 30 more days" and BFL just accepted the delays from the chips manufacturer w/o having anything to say about it except: "is this going to be the last delay? you promise?". What kind of contract you guys did with the fab? A hand shake?

    Bitcoin is like a variation of Schrodinger's Cat. Everything about it is both scam and fully legit at the same time until you open the box.

  8. #38
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    Have we received more info yet on whats up after Monday's call?


  9. #39
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    Ok, some minor details still being worked out, but here's the gist of it:

    I will most likely be headed to the fab at the end of the week to be prepared to pick up the chips next week. The broker says no later than the 8th on the chips, but most likely earlier. Even if the chips roll off the line on the 8th, it doesn't affect the timeline much. Here is the current projected timeline:

    • Leave for the fab ~ Feb 1st or 2nd
    • Acquire 6 wafers earliest Feb 4th - Latest Feb 8th
    • Transport wafers same day to bumping facility
    • 2 days in bumping facility
    • Transport to substrate and packaging
    • 1 - 2 days for substrate and packaging
    • Transport to assembly house
    • < 24 hours at assembly house
    • ~1 day for chip verification/testing
    • Transport to Kansas City
    • Bulk assembly / send out demo units
    • Ship bulk units


    Our timeline is still on target for the week of the 10th, probably towards the later part of the week. If the worst case scenario in every step comes to pass, we are looking at starting shipping around Monday the 18th. Best case scenario we will start shipping around Wednesday the 13th or Thursday the 14th. This is, of course, subject to change, but I will keep everyone updated when/if there are any changes.

    Last edited by BFL_Josh; 01-29-2013 at 07:42 PM.

  10. #40
    Member Phraust's Avatar
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    woo yay!

    bury the past™

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